The Bernardo Kastrup and John Vervaeke Debate

Theolocution #1 on Meta-Consciousness, Idealism, and Naturalism

Bernardo Kastrup is the preeminent Western philosopher espousing metaphysical idealism, and John Vervaeke is an Associate Professor at the University of Toronto focusing on the “meaning crisis” and a 3rd wave cognitive science approach to mindfulness. This is Round 1. Comment below as to what you’d like to see for Round 2.

Curt’s interview with JV alone:
Curt’s interview with BK alone:

The following is from the forum at

> Not God-realized. Just more beating around the bush, lost in mind.

I don’t think either of them claimed to be god realized. Bernardo Kastrup has some of the best philosophical arguments for consciousness being fundamental. His articles have been published in scientific american and he has held his own in arguments against prominent materialist philosophers. Pretty much anyone can plug a fuckton of 5-meo and become god realized. Not everyone can hold their own in debates against materialists like Kastrup can.

>> Not God-realized. Just more beating around the bush, lost in mind.

> Without beating around the bush, there would be no bush. 🙂
> Philosophical Understanding is important for setting the right
> conceptual foundation for a God Realization.
> Concepts are necessary before they are transcended.
> These two guys push the limit of their conceptual understanding
> by elucidating the patterns between their highest abstractions.
> If they were God-realized, would they even speak?
> To whom would they speak and why?